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Patriotism: Online Discussion
This story is so intense, that like it or loathe it, indifference is simply not an option.

To get the ball rolling, I have posted a few questions and comments of my own. Feel free to respond to these or to post any comments and questions you may have.

Patriotism: 72 entries on 8 pages. Page viewing: 2
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62 » Giles Murray           Date: 07.12.2008 Time: 12:57:59

Brandon, Are you reading "Kyoko no ie"? As far as I know, it's never been translated into English. Maybe that's something you should do!
I get the impression that the phrase in question could be (a) objectival (the kenbutsunin are looking at its state of being blocked) and (b) concessive (although it was blocked, luckily there were tradesmen and lunchsellers around). What does your native speaker say?
61 » Brandon      SC, US     Date: 04.12.2008 Time: 00:55:50

I consulted a native speaker, and it appears my mistake was in assuming that saiwai was an adverb modifying "utte iru".
60 » Brandon      South Carolina     Date: 03.12.2008 Time: 18:12:56

Giles, there's a sentence in Mishima's "鏡子の家" that's driving me crazy:

かなりの数の見物人もいるが 、通行を阻まれたのをさいわい油を売っている御用聞きや出前持などもいる。

I think the phrase 通行を阻まれたのを is what Iwasaki, a Japanese linguist, called an "integrated adverbial clause." However, I'm not really sure. Perhaps it should be read:

"Though the bridge was blocked"
"With the bridge blocked"

Then again, maybe the の refers to something more concrete. Any ideas from you or Michael?
59 » Giles Murray           Date: 10.11.2008 Time: 11:21:46

Brandon
I was reading the Japan Times yesterday, and they had an ad for their grammar series. It turns out they have intermediate and advanced Japanese grammars too. Maybe you should look into these.
58 » Brandon      South Carolina     Date: 10.11.2008 Time: 01:38:18

The translation of the particle "ya" is one of the frequently recurrent annoyances facing those rendering Japanese into English. We cannot strictly provide the true meaning of the Japanese without translating it, but on the other hand, we cannot translate it without the employment of some cumbersome phrase such as "and others" or "among others," and thus it often remains incompletely rendered as simply "and." The lack of a one-word equivalent is truly vexing.
57 » Brandon      South Carolina     Date: 08.11.2008 Time: 01:25:11

Speaking of useful resources, I've just begun downloading books from Google. The abundance of good reference works that have entered the public domain is simply astounding. Yesterday, I downloaded "A Simplified Grammar of the Japanese Language" and "A Handbook of Colloquial Japanese," both of which were published in England in the late 19th century. They seem quite good, though of course I would suggest only delving into them after having studied with a modern text. Foreign language study during that century was much more rigorous and demanding than that practiced in schools and colleges today, and one of the advantages is that the texts tend not to "dumb down" the language for the sake of learners. In fact, the grammar mentioned above is the only work in which I've seen someone address the fact that the Japanese language probably does not have true adjectives or adverbs (Japanese "adjectives" are in fact descriptive verbs, and its "adverbs" are actually nouns or the conjunctive "ku" forms of the descriptive verbs). That's something that might require a little more work for the English speaker to understand in the beginning, but in the long run, it prevents, rather than generates, confusion. For instance, it explains why, to many Japanese scholars, the polite "i"-adjective (e.g. takai desu) is anathema. If we understand takai as a descriptive verb meaning "is expensive" instead of simply the adjective "expensive," we see that takai already contains the notion of being, so that "desu" is redundant. A more reasonable construction would be "takaku arimasu"; indeed, this is the construction used in the ultra-polite, and rarely heard, "takou gozaimasu" (n.b. takaku-->takau-->takou). That's just one issue, but it illustrates what I consider to be a necessity in the study of Japanese, namely the consultation of various sources, old and new.

To those interested in Google books, happy hunting! However, do be mindful of copyright laws in your home country, if not the USA.
56 » Brandon      South Carolina     Date: 07.11.2008 Time: 12:50:42

I recently discovered Japan Times' "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" and I think I can say without a doubt that it is the single best reference book that I've ever come across on the modern Japanese language. I find the disambiguation of similar phrases, notably lacking in other books I've used, to be particularly welcome. I don't think it's in print anymore, but it isn't too difficult to track down online.
Reply: Brandon, I agree with you. I referred to this book in 13 Secrets for Speaking Fluent Japanese. The Japan Times published little, but whatever they put out was surprisingly good.
55 » Brandon Floyd      The Palmetto State     Date: 04.11.2008 Time: 01:07:49

Yes, it's very dangerous indeed. You could spend a fortune there in no time (Glad I have a Netflix subscriptionbiggrin). I assure you however that their DVDs are worth the money. Some of the video and audio transfers (especially those of older films) are unbelievably clean and crisp, and Criterion is always good about coming up with some interesting extras. Make sure to check out their Japanese DVDs while you're there.

I should note also that they have another line, called Eclipse, that focuses on lesser-known works. Eclipse DVDs don't quite get the royal treatment that those in the regular line do, though they're still very good by general standards, and they're considerably cheaper.
54 » Giles      Tokyo     Date: 27.10.2008 Time: 08:52:55

Brandon
I just went to the Criterion DVD website, which you pointed out re-released "Patriotism" and "Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters." It's a dangerous place to browse! I should point out that they only ship to USA and Canada, so it's a good idea to use their site to find what you want, then buy it on Amazon, if you live anywhere else.
53 » Brandon      South Carolina     Date: 23.10.2008 Time: 12:41:08

I had not heard about Ken Ogata's death. It's always sad to see the passing of a great actor, and he was one of my Japanese favorites. I thought he did an incredible job as Mishima. Another of his especially memorable roles was the killer in Imamura's 復讐するは我にあり, which I suppose in modern Japanese would be 復讐するのは我だ. (My ability to interpret that title must be credited to Mr. Staley's contributions to this board concerning classical Japanese. How's he doing, by the way?) That title is available on Criterion here in the US. Ogata also had a small role in a more recent film that I enjoyed 隠し剣鬼の爪; I can't remember the director's name, though...

It's been several months since I've posted regularly here--any new literary concoctions brewing at Kodansha International? I never picked up the second entry in the Read Real Japanese series, though I intend to do so soon.